“Love the Lord with all your heart, and with all your soul,
and with all your MIND”--Matt 22:37
Question: Why do Catholics celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25? "The Bible does not give the exact date of Jesus’ birth. Furthermore, it indicates that Jesus was born, not in the cold, rainy month of December or January but in a warmer season"--as argued by the Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs).
Short answer: it is indeed an arbitrary (although rooted in tradition) date chosen by the Catholic Church to celebrate our Savior's birth, as the exact day of Jesus' birth is unknown.
I would just like provide a cautionary statement: while it is our baptismal duty to share our faith--indeed, our faith is NOT private and we ought to invite others into the fullness of the Truth--JWs are not allowed to read any materials we Catholics might offer to them. Thus, it is really a one-sided dialogue that often occurs, with the JWs offering their arguments against Catholicism, but being unable to engage us in hearing our apologia. In addition, JWs are very adept at proclaiming their false doctrines. Many a person has succumbed to their astute missionary/biblical expertise and can be left with questions that are seemingly answered only by JW doctrine.)
Now, back to the discussion at hand!
Thus, the Church does not proclaim that Jesus was actually born on Dec. 25. Only that we celebrate it on this day. It's a celebration of the Incarnation, not a memorial of a specific day.
It is also true, as the JWs contend, that Dec. 25 was a pagan holiday, to celebrate the winter solstice. It is because this pagan origin that JWs do not celebrate Christmas (not to mention JWs do not believe Jesus is God, and thus reject the doctrine of the Incarnation.)
However, while the origins of the date of Christmas may have begun on a pagan holiday, Christianity reformed this pagan date date and made it holy! Indeed, this is a similar paradigm to the Incarnation. 2000 years ago Christ entered this pagan world and reformed and sanctified it by His Presence!
"Early Christian worship often used the customs and symbols associated with the paganism around it. One instance: The fish was a symbol of fertility in the ancient world and of eroticism in particular for the Romans. This pagan symbol became one of the most important symbols of the Church, the Greek word for "fish," ichthus, becoming a condensed confession of the faith....
Here was an opportunity for the Church to confront paganism, and so it aimed at one of the biggest and most important cults in Rome. The day chosen was December 25, when everyone celebrated the pagan feast of the dies natalis Solis Invicti, "the birthday of the Unconquerable Sun."
December 25 arrives around the time of the winter solstice, when the days get shorter and the sun seems to be "dying." After the winter solstice, the sun appears to regain its strength, is "born again" as it were, as the days become longer. Consequently, December 25 was the "birthday" of the Persian sun-god known as Mithras, originally one of the lesser demigods of the Zoroastrian religion. Mithras had become the principal Persian deity by 400 B.C. and his cult quickly overran Asia Minor. According to Plutarch, it was introduced into the West around 68 B.C., and became quite popular among the Roman legions." source
(Disclaimer: please note my comments on JW doctrine ought to be taken with the same grain of salt as if you heard JW claiming "This is what Catholics believe." I have a very limited understanding of JW doctrine...BUT! I also don't think I'm wrong in what I've been saying so far about JWs.
)
Jesus is gods son as stated in the Bible. He prayed to his father (God) while on earth! So if they are indeed the same why would he pray to his father who is himself in heaven. If they are the same wouldn't it defeat the purpose for Jesus to pray while he was here? He told people to pray to the father through him (in Jesus name we pray amen) not to offend but more research should be done on your part before you try to state the facts on their Jehovah's witnesses beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI think you misunderstand the dogma of the Trinity. We do not say that Jesus and God are "indeed the same". They are, indeed, separate. 3 Persons. One God.
DeleteWell I've been doing lots of research to understand different religious beliefs. I saw how some people believe Jesus was God while on earth. That he (God) sent himself as Jesus to be born as human. If that is so why did Jesus pray and to whom if people believe he was God while on earth? I do not put anyones beliefs down as u should not either just trying to learn or understand different points of views.
ReplyDeletesome thing else the Bible never does state the actual date of his birth. It doesn't seem to be in the month in which is our December considering it would have been very cold and wet from rain. The shepherds would have not been out with their flocks. Nor does it ever state that Jesus ask for his birthday be celebrated. If it was meant to be the actual date would have been specific. However his death seemed to be of more importance. Not saying his birth was not. But he did say however at the last super upon drinking the wine (a symbol of his blood) and eating of bread (symbol of his body) keep doing this in remembrance of me. He ask that be remembered. Also what started out as Christmas came from a horrible celebration. In which unholy things took place.they changed the name to Christmas and stated it was to celebrate christ birth in order to keep the holiday. How could anyone after researching how it started feel comfortable celebrating it. Again just trying to understand. I've come to find while doing research many people feel Jehovah's witnesses don't believe in Jesus because of them not celebrating Christmas. I think its just them not wanting to get caught up in those things of the world. The Bible never speaks of Jesus having a birthday party held for himself. The real importance was his love for us to die for us so that our sins to be washed away.
If you read the above blog I address all those concerns you have, Anonymous.
DeleteNamely: it is not a dogma that Jesus was born on Dec. 25. The dogma is the Incarnation, not the fact that we celebrate it on Dec. 25.
It could have been any day. The Church just chose Dec. 25.
Secondly, there is no verse in Scripture that says that we can't celebrate his birthday, or anyone's birthdays.
That is a man-made tradition that you have succumbed to.
No it does not say to not celebrate birthdays however the Scripture does give example of birthdays and the bad things that took place take for example in Matthew 14:6 Herod's birthday. The daughter of herodias danced and pleased Herod so much he told her she could have whatever she ask for. She asked for john
ReplyDeletethe Baptist head on a platter. And since he already promised he commanded it. (Just one bad example the Bible gives of birthday celebrations) the Bible does
however state Scriptures of Jesus at wedding celebrations and such where such things did not take place. I think there maybe reason they found it importance to let us know the wrong doings at birthday celebrations.
That is an interesting conclusion to draw from Matthew 14:6.
DeleteDo the JWs also believe that going to Egypt is bad? Bad things, too, happen in Egypt in the Bible. Just as bad things happen on birthdays.
So why do the JWs not prohibit their members from visiting Egypt?
It seems like an arbitrary prohibition that a FALLIBLE man has made for members of a church to follow.
The Bible does not say "Do not celebrate birthdays".
Again I did not say it does not say to not celebrate. I'm just saying MAYBE its the example they follow. The Bible never speaks of Jesus, the son of God ever attending any birthday celebration is all I'm saying. U see? I'm very interested about something else I've noticed upon my recent desire to study different religious beliefs. (Could be I'm stuck in between religions and trying to find which ones make sense most)
ReplyDeleten e way. I understand the Bible speaks of God being a jealous God. And he ask for status and such to not be prayed to or worshipped. The Bible never talks about worshipping Mary, mother of Jesus. Why pray to her statue? Why have it in a church where God is to be worshipped? I can understand maybe having respect for the woman, that I get. But having and praying to her statue, after specifically basically being asked not to. Why disrespect gods wishes? Hmm do u see how one may be confused over such actions? - trying to understand. :) thanks for your time.
Thank you for your comments. I understand that you know that Bible does not forbid the celebration of birthdays.
DeleteSo my question to you is this: is your position that if it's not forbidden in the Bible then it's allowed?
Or is your position that if it's not forbidden in the Bible then it's not allowed unless it expressly says we can do a particular activity?
Regarding Mary: Catholics do not worship Mary. We give her the honor she is due. The honor that Jesus gives her.
DeleteAnd as far as statues, you do know that God COMMANDS the creation of statues, right? (See Exodus 25 18:20).
So it's clearly not the existence of statues that God finds offensive. Rather, it is the worship of false gods.
And, of course, Catholics do not worship statues.
I don't think if it is not forbidden then it is not allowed. I just wonder if maybe God gives the example of negativity taking place ay birthday celebrations maybe we should stop and ask ourselves why? Of course he gave us free will to chose. Maybe he wanted us to figure it out on our own? Idk just seems there was a reason he mentioned the wrong doings and evil intention of people during birthday celebration as a way for us to say "hey if such ugly things were going on during the specific party's maybe we shouldn't associate ourselves with such celebrations."
ReplyDeleteDo you see my point of view?
But why is it the "birthday" part that you are focused on? Why not focus on the part that there was a daughter who is dancing? Why does not your church state "bad things happen in the Bible when daughters dance at parties, therefore, God forbids daughters to dance at parties."
DeleteOr the fact that there were dinner guests? Why does your church not state that "bad things happen when there are dinner guests, therefore, God forbids it when guests eat at your home."
Do you see what I am pointing out? It seems rather arbitrary to pick out that one particular fact--that this occurred at a birthday--and ignore the other facts that also occurred at this event.
ummm there are plenty of reasons in the bible besides what happend on those two birthday's mention that give plenty of indication that birthdays would be wrong to celebrate. Do some research on birthdays and where they originate from. It's actually pretty simple. God commanded we stay away from every sort of unclean thing. To have "Nothing" to do with it. So, I can agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses for not celebrating birthdays or Holidays. It's not like what they are doing is evil. They just want to be thorough in the worship of God.
DeleteAmen to God's command to stay away from every sort of unclean thing!
DeleteThere just is no Scriptural verse that says that birthdays are unclean.
That is a man-made tradition that none of the Apostles ever taught.
The thing is, birthdays originated with false gods ( A moon god that's y the traditional circle cake with candles to mimic the moon) the celebration dates back to the times of pharaoh and there is no mention of any of God's followers celebrating a birthday. If you look at where it originates from you would see its something God detects
DeleteThank you for your comments, Herbert. But there is NOTHING in Scripture which states that something that "originated with false gods" cannot be made holy by Christians. In fact, it's a well known fact that wedding rings are pagan in origin. As are wedding ceremonies. But JWs don't have anything against wedding rings or wedding ceremonies, right? That's because you can take something that began with pagans, and remove the idolatry from it.
DeleteOh also as soon as I'm able to read the Exodus Scripture I will get back to u :)
ReplyDeleteIn the Exodus Scripture are the angl statue (cherubim) meant to be prayed to? What is your view of this Scripture? Or were they used for protection?
ReplyDeleteFirstly, we are agreed, then, that having statues in one's churches and in ones homes is not forbidden, yes?
DeleteIt is the praying in front of statues that you find offensive or contrary to Scripture?
If so, what Biblical verse tells you that we cannot kneel before a statue and pray?
Also, do you believe that these people, pictured below, are worshiping a box of kleenex because they are kneeling before it?
Deletehttp://martybraemer.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/altar_call.jpg
Firstly, no we are not agreed. I did some research and to the best of my knowledge just by reading Exodus 20:4-5 alone gives me reason to believe that no it is not okay. Its says (not that I need to tell u I'm sure)
ReplyDeletethou shalt not make into thee ANY graven image, or any likeness (of anything) that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth thou shalt NOT BOW DOWN THYSELF TO THEM, nor serve them. For I the lord thy God am a jealous God.......
so to answer your question no I don't think its okay. To have them or bow down to them. If you see this differently, please feel free to explain.
Also was not able to view pic of Kleenex box (??)
So how do you explain God commanding, just a few chapters later, the Israelites to carve graven images to put on the Ark of the Covenant?
DeleteMake two cherubim of beaten gold for the two ends of the cover; make one cherub at one end, and the other at the other end, of one piece with the cover, at each end.—Exodus 25:18-20
As far as the picture of Kleenex, you'll have to cut and paste the website into a new window.
DeleteAnd as far as bowing being worship: do you believe that people in Japan are worshipping each other when they bow to each other?
What about in square dancing? Does your pastor prohibit the bowing after the do-si-doing? :-)
Finally, check out these verses in the Bible that show men bowing to angels/saints. So if it was prohibited, why is it in the Bible?
DeleteJoshua 5: 12-15
Daniel 8:17
You just need to take the Bible in its entirety, Anonymous, and not just isolate certain verses. That way you can understand truly what God is trying to tell us.
I just want to say something about the celebrations of birthdays. First of all, I believe JWs are bordering on fear and superstition when they say that they don't celebrate birthdays because something bad might happen. They are missing the point of celebrating a birthday completely! Us Catholics believe that the human person is the clearest reflection/image of the unseen God. When we were born our bodies themselves revealed the living God. As we grow we can choose to reveal/reflect more and more the image and likeness of God. On our birthdays the focus should be on renewing our thanksgiving to God for the body and our life given to us as opportunities to love Him, worship Him, and serve Him--to acknowledge that He made us and to give that gift back to him. Good Catholics raise their children to view their birthdays in this way. If a person is selfish on their birthdays then it is because they were not taught correct Catholic theology. Anonymous II
ReplyDeleteI understand where you are coming from. I have been a Catholic for 20+ years but after understanding better the message God has given to us. I would have to now agree completely with Jehovah's Witnesses. I never thought I would but research and studying the bible both helped me to conclude this.
DeleteI am now studying to be a JW. I go to their meetings and enjoy every bit of it. Even when I use to get angry at what and why they believed certain things I could never prove them absolutely wrong. I stuck by my beliefs for years before I gave them up to agree with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Also, recently I noticed how many ex-catholics there were in a Kingdom Hall and I laughed! So many ex-catholics! and not just the Kingdom Hall I attended and not all ex-catholics but also ex-other religions. A LOT OF THEM. Even ones who were super strict catholics all their lives!....That should say something! =)
Dear Catholic-Studying-to-be-a-JW: I fear you are leaving a faith you don't know! Before you leave the Catholic Faith, I urge you to study its teachings and why the Church proclaims what she does.
DeleteI doubt that you could offer any explanation as to why we pray to Mary, or why we believe Jesus is present in the Eucharist.
Until you can explain why Catholics believe this, then you ought study further before you leave.
Thank you for your concern. But I know enough teachings of catholisism to know what is true and what is false. Hell, for example, is taught to be a place of eternal torment in the catholic faith, yet the bible clearly states that in Eccleciastes 9:5 "the dead are concious of nothing at all" Verse 10 also states they have no memories, thoughts, or wages, from what I can recall. How can the dead suffer if there is no conciousness after death? Here is another example: Catholics believe that the good people who die go to heaven, yet Psalms 37:29 clearly states that "the righteouss themselves will possess the earth and reside FOREVER upon it." Jehovah's Witnesses use the bible when they teach along with, proof, evidence, true and accurate reasoning, and PROVEN PROPHECIES. For example, one prophecy that is soon to be fullfilled is Matthew 24:14 "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come." Jehovah's Witnesses are preaching an average of over a BILLION hours door to door and in public about the Good News warning people of the end. This is no accident or coincidence. A few verses later shows how Jesus cannot be God himself, which is what catholics believe. But it states no one knows the time of the end. For you no neither the day, nor the hour. Not even the son knows, but only the father who is in the heavens knows. How can Jesus be God if God knows something Jesus doesn't???
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your comments.
DeleteHere's something to think about: how do you explain Jesus telling the thief on the cross that he would be with him in paradise, if good people who die don't go to heaven?
Also, why did Stephen, in Acts 7:59-60, cry out to heaven to "receive my spirit", if he just becomes unconscious upon death?
Delete[5] For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten.
Delete[6] Their love also, and their hatred, and their envy are all perished, neither have they any part in this world, and in the work that is done under the sun.
This does NOT state that the dead know NOTHING, it states that they know NOTHING MORE, notice the MORE part of this.
Know nothing more: Viz., as to the transactions of this world, in which they have now no part, unless it be revealed to them; neither have they any knowledge or power now of doing any thing to secure their eternal state, (if they have not taken care of it in their lifetime:) nor can they now procure themselves any good, as the living always may do, by the grace of God.
Hell exists, and Jesus talked about its existence:
DeleteMark 9:47–48 Jesus warns us, "[I]t is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." And in Revelation 14:11, we read: "And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
Is it only just a few people that go or will it be many? Matthew 7:13-15 [13] Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! [15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Also check out Matthew 25. I'd like to highlight in particular Matthew 25:46 [46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
Rev. 14:11
Matt. 25:41-46
Luke 16:19-31
Mark 9:42-48
Matt. 18:8
Matt. 8:12
Rev. 20
Not sure if the Witnesses explained their idea that hell is only a place of rest in hope, but you might want to read your bible a little more closely so you don't have to hope you brought an asbestos suit.
Psalms 37:29 [29] But the just shall inherit the land, and shall dwell therein for evermore.
DeleteThis line in context is actually stating an inheritance of the promised land as a sign of God's blessing in the Old Testament. Please read Hebrews 11:8-16 &38-40 where these passages speak of a better homeland than earth and is meant for those whom die in faith.
There is a city in these passages and that city "hath foundations; whose builder and maker is God." Please note the New World Translation footnote should still note (unless changed for convenience) that the city mentioned in these passages is the heavenly Jerusalem from 12:22 and Rev 21:2.
If you need further proof of departure from this land unto the heavenly lands please read 2 Corinthians 5:1; Hebrews 3:1; Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 1:4-5; 1 Peter 1:4
In case the JW friends try and talk about some people go to heaven while others don't, try asking about the 144,000 whom are part of the heavenly class, and how the patriarchs from Matthew 8:11-12 according to Jesus are reclining at the table in the kingdom of heaven with ABRAHAM, ISAAC and JACOB. I ask this since the JWs teach: "The apostle Paul in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews names a long list of faithful men who died before the crucifixion of the Lord. . . . These can never be a part of the heavenly class" (Millions Now Living, p. 89) Unless we have a wibbly wobbily timey wimey thing going on here those guys are from the OT... AKA before the crucifixion.
So you believe only the Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) teach using the bible, proof, evidence, true and accurate reasoning, and proven prophecies? Fascinating.
DeleteSince you view the Catholic faith as the measure of comparison we shall utilize the church for this argument. The actual bible properly translated was actually compiled by Catholics for the Catholic church, by Catholics (New Testament), approved by Catholics, and preserved by Catholics. Did you know that the Catholic church means the Universal Church? So in a nut shell you're using a corrupted version (New World Translation) of OUR Bible! Now why would we have created the Bible you might ask? Simple, for the intended purpose of doing what we do with the Bible, and that is teach with the Bible. If you didn't see Catholics using a bible you didn't try looking very hard at all. (Or were you picking on the people who call themselves Catholic but don't practice? Not a fair fight shooting at an unarmed person. Bad form JW!)
Proof, evidence, true and accurate reasoning? Hmmm... I think I might have shot a few holes in your argument in my other posts already and that wasn't even an opening argument. Your teachings do not stand on proof, evidence, or truth since they are regularly refuted when a person looks deeper into the matter. The Catholic Church you speak against has numerous well thought through arguments that show all the faults of the JW teachings. I'm a bit saddened that you feel you know Catholicism so well but have missed all the arguments against the JW.
I think you have more a hate for the Church than a love for the truth otherwise you'd have been honest and looked into the truth.
Matthew 24:14 is not a valid argument pro JW, the Catholic church has been everywhere your people have been and more. Catholicism is broadcast in all forms of media, with practicing Catholics preaching the word of God in all lands using the Bible with proof, evidence, truth and accurate reasoning backed by 2000 years of discernment and solid argumentation.
Speaking of your prophecies and how accurate the JW church is in its teachings and well reasoned arguments that are so unchanging:
DeleteFrom the JW Studies in the Scriptures (Studies) and published through the Watch Tower Society (WT / WTS) whom claim to be God's reliable mouthpiece to the nations and His inspired prophet. (WT, 4-1-1972, 197) We find if a person "... merely read the Scripture Studies with their references and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he will be in the light at the end of two years . . . " (WT Reprints, 9-15-1910, 4685) Here's a list of some of the WTS prophecies:
1889 "The ‘battle of the great day of God almighty’ (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
1891 "With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy" (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
1894 "The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble" (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
1897 "Our Lord is now present, since October 1874 AD" (Studies, Vol. 4, 1897 edition, 621).
1916 "The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873" (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
1917 "Scriptures . . . prove that the Lord’s Second Advent occurred in the fall of 1874" (Studies, Vol. 7, 68).
1918 "Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914" (WT, 9-1-1922, 262).
1923 "1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge" (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
1925 "The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year" (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the dates 1914, 1918, & 1925 . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates" (Vindication, 388, 389).
1939 "The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead" (Salvation, 361).
1941 "Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years" (Children, 10).
1946 "Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972" (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
1966 "Six thousand years from man’s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E" (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 29).
1968 "The end of the six thousand years of man’s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date" (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).
Maybe the JW doctrine is a little more substantial and solid or maybe it's like the man building his house upon the earth and not on a foundation of rock. Luke [48] He is like to a man building a house, who digged deep, and laid the foundation upon a rock. And when a flood came, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and it could not shake it; for it was founded on a rock. [49] But he that heareth, and doth not, is like to a man building his house upon the earth without a foundation: against which the stream beat vehemently, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.
DeleteLet's find out shall we? These are taken from the JW Watch Tower Society from their very own definitive publication of their doctrine. This is by far NOT a complete list but only a sample.
"To worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong ... " (WT, 3-1880, 83). "It is unscriptural for worshippers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" (WT, 11-1-1964, 671).
The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT, 7-1879, 7-8). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT, 6-1-1952, 338). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT 8-1-1965, 479). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT 6-1-1988, 31). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Live Forever, early ed., 179). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Live Forever, later ed., 179). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, 985). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand! 273).
"There could be nothing against our consciences in going into the army" (WT, 4-15-1903, 120). Due to conscience, Jehovah’s Witnesses must refuse military service (WT, 2-1-1951, 73).
"We may as well join in with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event [Christmas] . . . " (WT Reprints, 12-1-1904, 3468). "Christmas and its music are not from Jehovah . . . What is their source? . . . Satan the devil" (WT, 12-15-1983, 7).
"Everyone in America should take pleasure in displaying the American flag" (WT Reprints, 5-15-1917, 6068). The flag is "an idolatrous symbol" (Awake!, 9-8-71, 14).
Seems to me these are shifting sands going whichever way the wind pleases.
Your billion hours of public preaching is a drop in the bucket compared to the public preaching of the Catholic church. The Catholic church has door to door preaching, missionaries in every country even the United States, also preaching and teaching in every form of media and that's all done globally, in all major languages and even in the local languages. You have 7.8 million members, the Catholic church has 1.28 billion members and growing. Even if only .006 Catholics were practicing Catholics, that'd equal all JWs globally.
DeleteYour statement about knowing enough teachings of Catholicism is either a lie or a admission of poor scholarship. I'll leave you to decide. One of the central doctrines of the Catholic church is the Trinity. Notice central as in a main point. I'm going to use an argument by Jim Blackburn to explain the difference between person and being.
"God is one Being (the one and only divine Being). This divine Being exists as three Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). This is unusual to us because each human being is only one person and it might seem that every being has to be one person: one being = one person.
But that’s simply not always the case. For example, a dog is a being but is not a person. A tree is a being but is not a person. In these cases, one being = zero persons. On the other hand, an angel is a being and is a person. In their case, angelic beings are similar to human beings: one being = one person.
Once you recognize that not every being is always exactly one person, it might be easier to grasp God’s unique reality, the Trinity: one Being = three Persons."
Now that we see one being can be three persons let's try and explain this in a physical way you might find practical. Imagine God is a blanket, and you folded the blanket into three parts. It's three parts and one blanket. OR maybe he's like a clover with three petals which make one clover leaf. Each part is different, but they make the same whole.
If God is as HE says, HE is all powerful, HE can be as many as he'd like, but HE chose to be ONE being, THREE persons.
Last I'll ask you what makes you think that your church is the true church? The JW church is new, and not from the time of Jesus no matter how hard you try and fudge the records or try and show you were there through hints and suggestions. Clearly when examining the new testament and the early church you come to one church. The Catholic Church.
DeleteJesus speaking to his disciples and specifically to Peter: Matthew 16:18-19 [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
Later speaking not to a crowd or to all of the believers / followers, but to his disciples alone in one room: Matthew 28:18-20 [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
[18] All power: See here the warrant and commission of the apostles and their successors, the bishops and pastors of Christ's church. He received from his Father all power in heaven and in earth: and in virtue of this power, he sends them (even as his Father sent him, St. John 20. 21) to teach and disciple, not one, but all nations; and instruct them in all truths: and that he may assist them effectually in the execution of this commission, he promises to be with them, not for three or four hundred years only, but all days, even to the consummation of the world. How then could the Catholic Church ever go astray; having always with her pastors, as is here promised, Christ himself, who is the way, the truth, and the life. St. John 14.
What makes you think that God is so powerless to defend His church that He needed to start a new one? (The JW contradicts thousands of years of God's word and guidance, something God does NOT do since he's unchanging.) If you seek the truth you'll come to see His church is still here, His one, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic church is and has always been the Catholic church of the Eastern AND Western rites.
thanks for this blog... i have been enlightened! i am proud to be a catholic.
DeleteThanks for this blog... I have been enlightened! I am proud to be a Catholic
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletecatholic already existed since then, it was written in the bible. when the new testaments came in, new religions also coming in, was so sad people change while God dont even did it . Its a great feeling to be a faithful catholic.
ReplyDeleteIam from Chuuk state (FSM). I was born and raise catholic.
ReplyDeleteI know this is an old thread. However being a few days from Christmas I myself is wondering why we choose one day to celebrate Jesus. I think it would stem from when Spring is in Israel, is it during the Western hemispheres Winter? Also, for many Westerners we come from European descents thus St.Nick' s kind spirit toward children comes to play. It is a holiday of love and warm spirit that is to be shared and enjoyed. Merry Christmas!
ReplyDelete"...the date of Christ’s birth was decided by using as a starting point the same day on which he was believed to have died."http://www.catholic.com/blog/jon-sorensen/why-december-25
Delete